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Perplex City Endgame Anniversary	02/02/2008 16:11:11

Thomas Bookmore

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This post is yours. Want to wish the other Cube Hunters a happy endgame anniversary ? Post it in this thread or PM me your message, and I'll put it up here for you. A little like this...

Thomas Bookmore wrote:

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Things often comes in groups of three in Perplex City, and it's only fair that thanks come along that way as well.

So thank you old-timers, for flying me to the UK and an awesome endgame party at the Gherkin.

Thank you to all the new faces, for bringing new ideas and fresh air to our collective puzzle-solving table.

Thank you to all the hardcore players and supporters, for keeping these forums active, alive and interesting even if Perplex City - Stories has been discontinued and if the future of the Season 2, Wave 2 cards seems uncertain to us.

Thank you to you all who, all through the last two weeks, have taken the time to answer MasterCheese, Rotek and myself when we'd ask our sometimes silly questions.

And thank you, Rotek and MasterCheese, for helping this old puzzler put up the gloves in an appropriate fashion.

Happy Anniversary, Cube Hunters.

-Perplexe Cité - PXC French Translation Project
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-Find Satoshi

#9891

	02/02/2008 16:13:51

Thomas Bookmore

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One year ago, a group of Hunters returned to the Wakerley Great Wood to search for the Cube and found an empty hole with "The End of the Line" perched on top of it - a gesture, says Andy Darley, meant to reach out to the fellow Cube Hunters who had made it all the way there just like him - only a little too late. One year later, Thomas Bookmore and Mr. Darley sit down for a chit-chat.

Thomas Bookmore : Hello Andy ! Perplex City has had some new players since the end of its first season who might not know you and your role in this game, community and adventure. Could you introduce yourself quickly ?

Andy Darley : I'm the one who spoiled all the fun by finding the Cube and ending the game. I was active and reasonably well-known in the forum at unFiction, but refused to join the movement that set up the Perplexorum and was therefore not involved in the biggest of the joint efforts to solve the final puzzles. Like everyone else, I took part in the Ascendency Point raid, then saw what Chippy and cjr22 did with the information revealed by it and went off to the woods hunting.

B. : People have had more than 3 years to play Perplex City, whether through the initial Project Syzygy, unFiction or other media. How and when did you first join the game ?

Andy : Just too late to miss the fun stuff like Clapham Common. I got Beloved Other Half a starter pack from Firebox for Christmas 2005 and it went from there. Being fairly solitary people, we didn't really go out of our way to mix with other players, but we were playing from then. I'm looking back on unFiction, trying to find my first post on there to remind myself why I joined but haven't found it yet. It was probably to do with solving cards. After a while, I felt guilty about drawing on other people's knowledge of card solves and, to put something back into the community, I started a thread summarising and compiling methods for solving the silvers, which I think is how most players had heard of me when I was named as the winner. I was quite surpirsed by that - I'd thought I was pretty anonymous, but then I won and most people were like "oh, him - yes, he's part of the community, brilliant". Wasn't expecting that at all.

B. : Many people were indeed pretty relieved that it was you, and not a last-minute sniper/lurker that found the Cube. How did you feel when the unFiction/Perplexorum split occur ? If I remember correctly, you decided to remain "faithful" to unFiction.

Andy : I was hoping you wouldn't ask that! There was a lot of bad blood at the time, I think, and I don't see how it helps anyone to stir it all up again. Having said that, it's a fair question and I'll answer it...I think for a lot of us on unFiction, the split when it came was a real shock - all the arguments had been happening in the chatrooms and those of us who didn't use them had no idea a storm was brewing. Suddenly the arguments spilled over into the main unFiction forums and all I really had to go on was what was posted in them. Bare in mind, I've been online since about 1997 and I've moderated and beta-tested quite a few forums in that time, including ones for national newspapers where the arguments get very bloody. In any forum argument, my natural sympathies are usually going to be with the mods. And, without saying anything that'll offend people, on this occasion I saw nothing at all that made me think the people who were complaining about the way unFiction was run were in any way speaking for me. So when they left, I gladly waved them goodbye. And you can see the aftereffects of that if you look at the Perplexorum log for the minutes after I was named as winner. BUT - and this is very important - any problems there might have been have long since been sorted out - a few conversations were had by email and at the party at the Gherkin and - as far as I'm aware - we're all cool now. I'm seriously impressed by the achievement involved in setting up the Perplexorum virtually overnight and turning it into a vibrant community. In particular, I think the contribution of Skenmy - Paul - was the most underated of anyone in the game. Top bloke.

B. : How did the party at the Gherkin feel, knowing that all these people were here thanks and because of, in large part, to you ?

Andy : I'm not a big fan of pubs, clubs, bars or parties, so I wouldn't have gone if it hadn't been pretty much compulsory. Having said that, I had a pretty good time and was glad to meet in real life most of the people I'd talked to online - missed out on speaking to a couple, but it was a frantic evening for the most part so I suppose that's not surprising. I don't think people were there because of me, actually - they were mainly there to see each other and celebrate the end of the game, in other words they were there because of the community they built. They were interested in me, certainly, but only in passing. And I'm glad about that, because although there were points where I felt like a spare part, there were others when I found it terrifying. The first time I ventured into the main part of the room I suddenly found myself surrounded by people wanting to speak to me and I distinctly remember jerking around on the spot, stammering, feeling all panicky and not sure who I should be facing or talking to first. Horrible. But most of the evening wasn't like that, thankfully.

B. : Since Perplex City Stories went into hibernation, have you kept in touch with the ARG scene ? What games have you participated in ?

Andy : No, I've dropped out of ARGs utterly. The interviews I did after the game ended forced me to think a lot about the structure of the game and I realised it was an equal mix of three genres, ARGs, collectible card games and treasure hunts. And, while everyone wanted me to be the posterboy for ARGs and wanted to ask me about them, I realised that actually they weren't the part I was most interested in. These days, I'm really into geocaching and I find that this gives me the same buzz as cubehunting did - and ARGs don't.

B. : I reckon you had started posting on the unFiction forums and playing along for Season 2, whether that would be with Stories or the cards. Since Perplex City has been put on hold for some time now, and you mentioned that you have moved on to other types of game - namely geocaching - should PxC resume, will you join the ranks again ?

Andy : That's a really difficult question. And I think it would depend onthe personnel behind it. I'd love to check in on kurtnviolet and see how those crazy kids are doing - but if it's not Naomi and Adrian providing the words then it's not the Kurt and it's not the Violet that we knew from before. Without the characters, Perplex City is just another sci-fi city like a thousand others in fiction - so it would depend entirely on which BIT of PxC returned. Potentially, though. yes - I'd be there.

B. : Has anything changed in your life since you found the Cube and pocketed the prize that came with it ? How ?

Andy : Well, things were changing anyway as we were buying our first house and increasingly moving into working for ourselves from home, so it's difficult to say how many of the changes in my life over the last year are down to the win. But one huge difference is that we were able to buy without having to get a mortgage to top up the money we'd already raised, which means our monthly outgoings are so much lower than they would otherwise have been - and the result of that is that we need to work less to pay the bills. It's improved our quality of life no end.

B. : You're going to remain famous in the little world of ARGs for a few years because of your find, but has this "celebrity" extended to your everyday life in one way or another ? If so, when has this most surprised you ?

Andy : If I'm famous in ARGs it doesn't impact on me at all, as I'm not active in the world of ARGs. And outside of ARGs almost no-one's heard of the game, so there's no celebrity. I suppose I was a bit surprised by how the PR side of the cubefinding flopped so badly - in the mainstream media there were more stories in advance of the find previewing it than there were about the find itself. I think that was down to journalists not understanding what it was all about, and the PR company Mind Candy used failing to explain it properly because they didn't get it either - I think it was Adrian who told me that they hadn't understood why they couldn't pre-schedule interviews with the winner because Mind Candy didn't know when the competition would end. In the interviews I did, I made a conscious effort to put forward the main PR messages that Mind Candy were pushing - no-one briefed me to, but I used to work in PR so it wasn't rocket science to work out what they needed me to say.

By the time I finally cracked and said 'no more' (just before Season 2 was postponed) I could do it in my sleep - no-one would have noticed if you'd replaced me with a simple script churning out interview replies, a sort of random Rand0m generator. Just mix together phrases like "thousands of players working together... Orange Prize-winner... no sharp elbows... aircraft towing a message over Manchester city centre... season two will be more accessible and easier to play... so many facets to the game that it never got boring... final clue available to anyone on a very common puzzle card..." and so on. But I was - and still am - haunted by the end of Masquerade, where the winner turned out to be a secretive cheat who left everyone with a sense of unfinished business because of all the questions he left unanswered. And so I felt - and still feel - a responsibility not to be the one who spoils the memory of Perplex City. Which is why I'm doing this.

B. : You've been going through the PR for the end of the game, you gave both on unFiction and your site a detailed account of your finds, and today you're answering our questions. Do you feel all the loose ends are tied now ?

Andy : I hope my side of it is all tied up, though that's not really something I can judge - other people have to decide that. But despite my efforts, it's happened anyway, hasn't it? With the collapse of season two and all the unanswered questions from Mind Candy. Masquerade ended with all the players left hanging and the feeling that the wrong person won it. Perplex City ended with everyone looking at each other and saying 'WTF happened there'? Because if anyone knows why Mind Candy pulled the plug and parted company with the creative staff, I sure dont! Hopefully your interviews will clear that one up for the rest of us...

B. : You've made it clear during this interview which question you hoped wouldn't be asked - let's balance things out and hear what's the question you wish you had been asked, and what is the answer to it ?

Andy : Well, I wondered if you'd ask the standard best moment / worst moment / sexiest player / what did you spend the money on questions ! Best moment (and I've only told this to the person involved up until now) was walking away from the hole with the Cube in my backpack, punching the sky, and shouting at the top of my voice "I beat you, Ollie Keers, I beat you" !

Worst moment was when the Sunday Times had to be leaned on by Mind Candy because they had found Beloved Other Half's name and were going to publish it.

Sexiest player? Guin, easily. That man is pure animal magnetism....Of course, I should have said Beloved Other Half to that last question - she's behind me now, pouting!

B. : Well thanks for finding the time to answer, Andy. It was a pleasure finally meeting you !

Andy : And you

-Perplexe Cité - PXC French Translation Project
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-Find Satoshi

#9892

Re: Perplex City Endgame Anniversary	02/02/2008 16:14:11

Thomas Bookmore

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Over its 3-years course, Perplex City and its early, teasing incarnation Project Syzygy attracted the attention of puzzlers all over the world - some of whom eventually made their way from the ranks of players to the land of Mind Candy through their talents or dedication. For the second slot in this series of interviews, meet Guy - as WLP moderator Rotek takes him down Memory Lane.

Rotek : Perplex City has had new players since the end of its 1st season who might not know you and your role in the game. Could you introduce yourself quickly?

Guy Parsons : I'm Guy, I started off as a Cube Hunter in the Syzygy days and then ended up moderating the forum on Unfiction, and eventually went to work at Mind Candy in round-abouts April '06. I was the Community Dude for Perplex City which meant doing a whole bunch of stuff from running customer support and tracking problems to recording videoblogs and all that jazz. It's actually a good sort of job, particularly if you wanna get into the industry... you get lots of hands on experience (or at least insight) in lots and lots of different areas.

R. : It’s now been a year since the Cube was found, ending the first season of PXC. How did you feel when the you heard the first Season was finally over? What were the MC offices like on that day?

Guy : Well! We knew the jig was up of course, we'd mostly planned for the jig to be up. But of course we'd been following the process of those brave enough to go digging online, hearing rumours here and there. And then ultimately I think we'd seen something on the forums - I forget what - oh, actually, I do remember, someone had found The Hole In The Woods and had posted a diagram of where it was, which Adrian of course knew to be The Spot. At which point we all took to watching the shared ifoundit@ address and not doing a whole lot else.

Thanks to my l33t refreshing skills, I'm proud to say that I caught Andy's email first, but yeah - the atmosphere was awesome. I think after an hour of digital negotiation Adrian was chatting on the phone with Mr Darley and just like that we decamped to the pub!

It's weird, like a lot of things in life it's hard to match the Big Moment with the Big Emotional Punch. If somehow all the stresses and excitements of the past two years had all come rushing back in one moment, then none of us would be here to tell the tale. But yeah, definitely exciting!

R. : Since Perplex City went into hibernation, have you kept in touch with the ARG scene? What games have you participated in?

Guy : You know, I have a lot of fondness for ARGs and what they can do, so of course I follow stuff happening in the ARG scene pretty closely. But I've always been a slut for innovation and novelty - I got into The Beast because it was so groundbreaking, I loved ILB [I Love Bees] for throwing open the format to be accessible to so many more people, and of course Perplex City, in its scale and ambition, broke ground of its own. So although I still grin ear to ear when I hear about a new trick being used in an ARG (Batman's phone-in-cake schtick, for example) really I'm gonna be most switched on to something that approaches the form in a new way.

But I'm definitely always noticing how games use worlds and stories to create interesting experiences, which obviously relates hugely to ARGs. I guess my guilty secret is when I can't snark on an intelligent forum about a clever interactive mystery, I like to run around pretend virtual worlds shooting at stuff, so the last year has been all about Half-Life 2, Portal, Team Fortress 2, the GTA Series, and a few others. So that probably sounds really snobby, but that's my line and I'm sticking to it! I will be watching Cloverfield however!

R. : If or when PXC comes back, would you still participate in it, either as a player or even back at MC ? Can you even see a resurrection in the cards (excuse the slight pun there!) ?

Guy : Oh, absolutely! I remain a huge fan of the spirit and attitude of the game, so if it could keep that then I'd be following along in a shot. But as for the second question, I'm in too deep to be able to comment, although needless to say anyone deeply invested in the question could make some reasonable assumptions from publically available data. Nonetheless - and not to lessen the awesomeness that was the Perplex City - I'm also confident that inevitably, someone will invent something that inspires and intrigues us all in new and possibly even more exciting more ways! That's how culture works, not standing on the shoulders of giants, but standing on the shoulders of a guy who is standing on the shoulders of a guy who is standing on the shoulders of a guy. So yeah, stay curious!

R. : Alrighty, that about wraps it up then. Thanks very much for doing this!

Guy : Has been a pleasure sir! Gives one the ole' misty-eye!

-Perplexe Cité - PXC French Translation Project
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-Find Satoshi

#9893

Re: Perplex City Endgame Anniversary	02/02/2008 16:14:32

Thomas Bookmore

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While the quest for the Cube was raging, some people would still find the time to solve the puzzles sent on Earth by Sente Kiteway as part of the Cube Retrieval Initiative - efforts which could be kept track of on the Perplex City Leaderboard. As Season 1 ended, the Leaderboard was frozen, keeping players Tally and Marc up at their ex-aequo first place for posterity. One year later, a man with a plan sits down with Thomas Bookmore for a talk about the future of interactive, immersive entertainment.

Bookmore : Good evening Marc, how're you ?

Marc : Great, thanks ! Yourself?

B. : I'm fine, thanks - and thanks for joining us in this series of interviews for the first anniversary of the Perplex City endgame !

Marc : My pleasure. I can't believe it's been a year already!

B. : Would you introduce yourself for all those who joined the Earth-based CRT after the end of the first season ?

Marc : Sure. I'm Marc McGinley (aka mac_monkey) a student of Multimedia Design in London. I was quite heavily involved with Perplex City season one. I guess a better word is addicted. And somehow I managed to finish up join top on the leaderboard with Tally. No idea how though !

B. : The race for the top of the Leaderboard was a nice one already - surely enough the pretty crown you and Tally received as a reward was good motivation ! Were you one of the lucky 333 to find out about Perplex City or, as it was called, Project Syzygy ?

Marc : No, I wish! How on earth am I going to complete my set of Leitmarks? I joined the game fairly late. I was browsing through the cool toys and stuff in Playlounge in London (the first place to stock Perplex City cards) when I found that mysterious silver pack. I was instantly intrigued, and unsure of how the whole thing worked, but my curiosity led me down the rabbit hole. I started with the puzzles, and assumed that was all there was, until I found 'Bar None' and soon realised the added depth to the game. I guess that day was the day I discovered ARGs, and I'm glad I did!

B. : How did this added depth manifest itself to you ?
Marc : I found the phone number on the card and reached Violet's voicemail, which I thought was interesting. I stumbled upon more of the story when I was googling around. Some posts from the official Perplex City forums (most of which were by Oliverkeers13) and the Perplex City Wiki. I would regularly read up on the back story of the game and the London Live Event was my first entrance into the ARG universe. Once I'd seen the morse code on the London Eye, I simply had to explore the game for myself, helping with new puzzles and plot revelations as they happened

B. : You mentioned that Perplex City was an addiction for you - did this interest carry on to other Alternate Reality Games after Perplex City Stories was put on the backburner ?

Marc : Yes and no. I haven't been involved with another ARG as heavily as I was with Perplex City. I have however, been lurking on many games. I find that I get just as much from watching people interact and solve games than I do from actually playing them. The former fits my schedule much better too. I also like to keep a lookout on what new things are happening in ARGs. I particularly enjoyed the Numb3rs tie in. The new Torchwoord ARG is looking interesting too.

B. : I've heard through the grapevine that you have a few projects of your own regarding ARGs, in the academical as well as the personal field. What is it that made you decide to dedicate more than just your leisure time to this new type of games ?

Marc : Yes, I've got a project coming up soon actually. I'm developing a grassroots ARG as a practical dissertation for my final year of my degree. I guess I'm interested in looking at what's new for ARGs and their application. My actual project title is: "An investigation into future applications for Alternate Reality Games". I love my degree because I can do absolutely anything I want, and this is it ! ARGs interest me because of the level of interaction, it's the highest level possible compared to other games, I wanted to look at ARGs from an academic point of view, to see how they relate to classical games theory.

B. : They do take us further into the game than say, chess, that is for sure ! The three games that were mentioned in this interview so far - Perplex City, Numb3rs and Torchwood - are directly related to either a product or a show, quite like the famous "Beast" and "I Love Bees" games. Do you think there is a future for games that aren't a branch of, or don't support a commercial franchise ?

Marc : That's a very interesting question. There's definately a trend in the uptake of transmedia TV experiences and product tie-ins. I personally considered Perplex City as a standalone game. Whilst the cards were there, it wasn't necessary to buy them, and they're there to support the game not the other way around. As far as games which don't support a franchise go though, there's still some difficult issues to be worked out. I don't think the subscription based system seen in Majestic has matured sucessfully yet. I'm not sure how a games company would expect information that only subscribers are supposed to have to not be shared. To me it's a fundamental flaw. I can see a business model there somewhere, but I think more work needs to be done in the area. Product placement would be one of the avenues I'd like to see more of, as long as it's subtle. This would keep games free, and clear of unobtrusive advertising.

B. : Along with product or franchise support, another apparently defining trait of ARGsseems to be their short length - Perplex City being, in a way, an exception as it kept going much longer than its originally-intended 6 months. Do you think this is due to the high cost of organizing and running such a game, or is it due to something else ?

Marc : I guess cost is a factor, although in comparison to video games, ARGs are very cheap. I think a lot of the success of short games can be put down to attention span and join-in-ability (perhaps one day that'll be a real word). I guess people are less likely to be committed to playing a long scale game since they're not sure what they'll be doing in a year and often their level of activity will dwindle. I think short games are often easy to jump into for new players. Perplex City had a huge problem that it was hard to jump in once it had been running for a while. At least with short games, new ones come up often so it's never too long to wait before you can get involved with something cool.

B. : So even if Alternate Reality Games are trying to provide a new level in immersion, this unprecedented immersion becomes a disadvantage as the game itself continues running for a long period of time ? How would you suggest finding a balance there ?

Marc : Yeah, it looks like there's a double-edged sword there. I imagine that there will still be sucessful long games, it all boils down to the content of the game and it's structure. I think Perplex City stories was an interesting concept in its episodic pick up and play style. To an extent this is what they're doing with Eldritch Errors, and it seems to be working somewhat.

B. : There was quite a hefty prize up for the person who's put her or his hands on the Cube. Was that a big motivation to you or (from what you've observed) to the other players ?

Marc : Initially it was. There's no doubt that I wouldn't have bought my first pack of cards not knowing what they were if there wasn't a prize. I seemed to find that the more involved the community were with the game, the less they cared about winning the prize. It wasn't the main motivator at all. Most of the hardcore players would (hopefully) probably agree.

B. : The Torchwood ARG that recently launched to go along with the second season of the show is "region-locked", which is quite paradoxical when the media that power ARGs are often international in nature. Do you think we'll see more games reserved for one specific area, or is this going to remain an exception ?

Marc : I think there will always be games made to be played in a number of regions. Such region-locking can be frustrating for international players and they're not wrong to complain. From a developer's point of view, it's a lot easier to develop for a very specific audience as it's easier to control. The BBC can easily make people notice all of the content that they're putting out through various channels, but if the game was open to all it'd be less effective. Would people in America get annoyed because they aren't getting to see secret messages broadcast between shows, or even in other shows? Ideally, developers want to make games for everyone, but they also don't want to do things by halves. I guess the BBC want it to either be really successful, or not there at all. Of course, there could be other reasons for this decision. I know for example that people in the UK can't access the BBC Worldwide websites, because they contain advertising (which UK viewers pay a licence fee to avoid). So this could be a decision taken for similar reasons.

B. : Do you think countries other than the United Kingdom and the United States are "ready" for Alternate Reality Games, or are these two pretty much the only ground where this genre can expand freely for now ? And if so, what do you think it would take to "open up" other countries to this genre of interactive entertainment ?

Marc : That's a fantastic question. Is it that other countries are not ready? or just that they haven't been willing to invest in such a new form of entertainment? I think it's a mix of both. Obviously language barriers are an issue, and if games are to be large scale, they need to potentially span many countries I think ARGs are particularly successful in the UK and America because of the large number of players who speak the same language in the same sort of culture. Which I guess begs the question, why aren't they being pioneered in Japan the home of technological development?
I think the answers lie in the nature of ARGs, and their roots in fiction. America and the UK are known for their TV and films that are broadcast around the world. It's that sort of fictional depth that drives developers to experiment with such games. I'd love to see games that span the world though, and even some localised ones.

B. : I'll be looking forward to that with you ! Time stick to the tradition : what is the question you wished you wouldn't be asked, and what's the answer to it ?
Marc : Haha. I love it! Let me have a think... I'm glad you didn't ask more about the secret project, because I wouldn't have told you much. All I can say is keep your eyes out over the coming month, especially if you're in London ! And that it'll definately be possible to play no matter where you are in the world.

B. : Now that's a teaser ! Anything else you'd like to say to the Perplex City fans out there ?
Marc : Perplex City was a great experience for me, I loved every bit of it. I've got loads of fond memories of digging in the woods at stupid hours of the night, solving puzzles with the community and conga-ing in Traffalgar Square. The community is one of it's highlights, and I hope that will always be remembered about Perplex City.

B. : Well Marc, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions - and happy EndGame anniversary !

-Perplexe Cité - PXC French Translation Project
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-Find Satoshi

#9894

Perplex City Endgame Anniversary	02/02/2008 16:14:51

Thomas Bookmore

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Wearing the dual-cap of community girl and moderator on both official and non-official forums, Izzy is also one of the few who got to enjoy Perplex City Stories' first - and last - live event. Tonight, she and WLP moderator Rotek have a sit and a chat about the players communities, and the taste of adventure Izzy got to experience.

Rotek : Perplex City has had new players since the end of its 1st season who might not know you and your role in the community. Could you just introduce yourself briefly?

Izzy Martin : OK, sure ! I'm Izzy Martin, player name of _izzy_, I'm 21 and UK-based. I was probably best known for being a community moderator on both Perplexorum and the We Love Puzzles forum. I started playing Perplex City at Christmas 2006 when I received a starter pack, but didn't fall completely down the rabbit hole until after the PCAG (Perplex City Academy Games).

R. : It's been, now, six months since Perplex City went into hibernation. In that time, have you kept in touch with the ARG scene? Have you participated in any other games?

_izzy_ : Yes and no - it's a bit of a middle ground really. I am still very interested in ARGs but due to various things I haven't been as involved as I would like. I stopped moderating WeLovePuzzles as my love for PXC was always far more about the ARG than the cards - I really enjoyed the puzzle cards, but I'm the kind of person who has to solve things on her own (maybe with a few hints!), so I never got that high on the leader board. So all in all without the ARG I lost interest in WLP - which is a shame. I am still keeping an eye on what Mind Candy Design are up to though. I have a Moshi Monster called Lettie!

In May 2007 (before PXC ended) I played Frozen Indigo Angel and won tickets to the Radio One Big Weekend [in Preston], and I was very excited about playing AiL (Alice is Lost) which was cancelled following a very intriguing prologue. I still hold out hope that Eric or someone else will do an Alice-based ARG as I think that would have real potential.

We chose to celebrate Perplexorum’s first birthday last August by running a week-long ARG-style trail following the character of Dinah. I was very involved in that along with other moderators of the forum, and it gave me a whole new respect for puppetmasters!! It was hard work! But I was very proud of what we produced.

Since then I have unfortunately been very busy, so haven’t had that much time for ARGs. I was on a team for Let's Change the Game [Adrian Hon’s project to create a game in aid of Cancer Research UK], as puppetmastering ARGs is something I would love to explore and cancer is a subject very close to me. Unfortunately we didn’t get past the first round, but best of luck to those that did, and I’m really looking forward to seeing what comes of it. I also had a look into the Chainfactor/Numb3ers thing (that was a very addictive little game!) and I’m currently enjoying the TorchWood cross-media experience (not sure one could really call either of them ARGs). I have also been really interested to see the viral marketing of Cloverfield, and the amazing box office figures that has brought in America.

R. : Earlier, you mentioned your involvement in Perplexorum, which was a very popular community forum in its heyday, but was archived in November 2007. What were the main reasons for its closure?

_izzy_ : Unfortunately there hasn't really been much out there recently on the ARG scene – especially UK-based - so in November we took the very tough decision to close. It was a shame as we had built up such a strong, close community but we felt it was for the best.

R. : Mind Candy have made a point for players to know that Perplex City is "not dead", but instead "in hibernation". Are there any plans to resurrect Perplexorum should Perplex City return in the future?

_izzy_ : We talked about it when we took the decision to shut down, and if the situation should arise that Perplex City did start up again I’m sure it’s something that we would seriously consider. It's a hard question though, as from a personal standpoint I would like to say "definitely, yes !", but it was a team effort and it depends on where people are at with their lives etc. If we didn't have the time to make it the forum the players deserved , then surely it's better to not resurrect. It's a decision that would need to be taken when the time comes.

However to be very honest, in my personal opinion, I'm not sure [that Perplex City’s return is] something that will happen, as much as I would love it to, but if it does I can't see it being the same - one of the things that made PXC so great to me was the writers, and they are now gone. I can't imagine Kurt not being written by Adrian or Vi not by Naomi... But who knows? Only the future can tell, you know...

R. : You're one of the lucky few who were able to participate in live events from both Season 1 of PXC and the Frozen Indigo Angel PXC Stories teaser game. Did you feel much of a difference in the organization (or anything else), between a first season (that completely rested on Mind Candy's organization), and the second (that benefited from the BBC's partnership)?

_izzy_ : Firstly I have to say that whilst I was at the Perplex City Academy Games I didn't actually play (I was too ill at the time to run around London like a mad thing, so I spent the day at base camp - and watched my friend go round the London Eye !). I think it's an interesting question to ask all in all - and not one I'm sure I can answer in a satisfactory way. Especially as I know from doing Cubecast (Perplexorum's very short run PXC podcast) that the thing that made the Frozen Indigo Angel live event - running around like mad things on the second day, finding and 'defusing' V's devices - was something the story team up in Preston came up with on the Saturday night, as we had found and solved the sets far faster than they guessed.

R. : Ah yes, I remember that!

_izzy_ : But it was great they were adaptable and could accommodate out fast solving! And I applaud them for that. But yes, like you said I was very very lucky to attend both events - I just wish I was playing when Clapham Common happened, as that sounds like an amazing day out!

R. : Izzy, thanks for doing this interview!

_izzy_ : You are welcome!

-Perplexe Cité - PXC French Translation Project
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#9895

Perplex City Endgame Anniversary	02/02/2008 16:15:15

Thomas Bookmore

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There are few puzzles in the Perplex City 'verse that have resisted the efforts of the Earth-based CRT - those left over will either take a huge community effort (like the 13th Labour) or a mathematical genius (like Riemann). And then of course, there's the one that takes us into a worldwide game of Where's Waldo. Tonight, Rotek and Chris Warren talk about the thrill of the hunt for a man...And for long lost treasures.

Rotek : Perplex City has had new players since the end of its 1st season who might not know you and your role in this community. Could you introduce yourself quickly?

Chris : Ok, well I started playing during the summer of 2006 and got hooked instantly. I never really considered myself as having a 'role' in the community as such - just had fun trying to group solve puzzles, having a general laugh and getting drunk when possible ! But I suppose I along with Laura spearheaded a lot of the effort towards the currently unsolved Billion To One puzzle.

R. : So how's the quest for Satoshi going? It seems to have gone 'underground' a little since the announcement of the postponement of the second season of the game. Have you made much headway recently?

Chris : Yeah, I think a lot of people don't feel much motivation to put the same level of effort behind it now Perplex City is 'on ice'. I still keep the www.billion2one.org site up and running and I do occasionally get the odd email or two. Some people just enter the facts that we already know, but you do get the odd strange one - which I try and chase up if I can. For example, we had one chap send an email saying that he worked with him in a coffee shop near Los Angeles!

R. : Wow, yeah that is a bit of a strange lead!

Chris : Yeah, was quite exciting until the chap never replied when asked to provide any more details.

R. : So what propelled you to start the project in the first place?

Chris : Just the sheer scale of the task and audacity of Mind Candy in setting it! It was more tempting in a way than other puzzles where you know that you or someone else could no-doubt solve it on their own with a bit (or a lot) of effort. Where this one you knew it really requires the effort of the whole community if you've any chance in solving it. It's such a shame that the community is much smaller now - will make it that much harder (same as with the distributed solve of 13th labour). I think it'll be a case of luck if we solve it now!

R. : I was going to ask that, do you feel that Satoshi will ever be found and the card solved?

Chris : I hope so. I think if it goes unsolved for long enough, it could come something of a cult thing. People find an attraction in trying to solve things that have gone unsolved for 10+ years. Maybe Mind Candy could drop a clue every decade! I guess there's another unusual thing about that puzzle. It's going to get more difficult over time, as Satoshi grows older and his appearance changes. And eventually, it'll become impossible...

R. : Since Perplex City ended, have you kept in touch with the ARG scene? What games have you participated in?

Chris : Yep, I’m always checking out Unfiction to see what's going on. I've not managed to get engrossed into a full-scale ARG since Perplex City (what can compare?!); I've just been too busy moving house and the like, but I've followed a few 'interactive experiences' or 'puzzle trails' or whatever you like to call them since. Let me think... The 2nd Lost one (find815.com) and the ones for the Uncharted game and Halo 3. I've currently got interested in something much more fun though! Something very much like the treasure hunt element of Perplex City and Masquerade - a French treasure hunt that's been unsolved for the past 14 years... Sur La Trace de la Chouette d'Or. Bookmore introduced me to it, just this past week. And it's also been mentioned in the UK press and on Radio during the past fortnight. You think Perplex City players went to great lengths and took things seriously. You haven't seen some of the players of this thing. One chap burnt down a French chapel because he thought the golden owl was hidden within its walls, but that there would be boobytraps, so burning it down was the easiest way to check! Someone else started digging up the concrete platforms of a railway station.

R. : That's...a whole new kind of obsession!

Chris : Weren't us PXC players a well-behaved bunch, eh? It's a funny contrast, really. During the end-game of PXC, the little group of players I was a member of (Team Alice) figured that the cube was likely buried on Forestry Commission land. We were really worried about going into the forest and digging it up, because we were well aware, that technically, it wasn't allowed!

R. : Moving on now. If/when PXC returns from its 'hiatus' will you still participate in the second season? A lot of players seemed to have dropped away, possibly never to return, but would you?

Chris : Of course - time permitting... Nah, who am I trying to kid... Even if I didn't really have the time, I'm sure I'd jump straight back in! Is that the answer you were expecting? I'm sure pretty much everyone you've interviewed will have said similar!

R. : You guessed correctly!

Chris : How many PXC Points was that worth?

R. : Uh...1...!

Chris : Woohoo! Every little one counts!

R. : Anyway, thanks for taking the time to talk to 'us' this evening, Chris!

Chris : No problem, thanks for interviewing me! I'll see you at the 2nd year anniversary, or the rebirth of PXC, if not earlier!

-Perplexe Cité - PXC French Translation Project
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-Find Satoshi

#9896

Re: Perplex City Endgame Anniversary	02/02/2008 16:15:31

Thomas Bookmore

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Thomas Bookmore : Good evening Tally, and thanks for joining us for this series of interviews. Would you introduce yourself in a few words for those who didn't get to meet you during the first season of Perplex City ?

Tally : Well, I am Tally. I started playing PerplexCity around the start of 2006, just in time for the London Event. People may recognise my name from the Leaderboard, I guess, but I am much more fun than that might suggest.

B. : How did you first "meet" Perplex City ?

Tally : My brother, always one for getting me odd presents, bought me several packs of cards for Christmas 2005. I thought they were simply puzzle cards, until I went online to enter the solves and a whole new world was revealed to me. I had never even heard of ARGs before; I have always loved great story-telling and mysteries, and was immediately captivated by the world of PerplexCity. As I delved deeper I began to realise that I had stumbled upon something really very special. The whole concept of emailing characters, reading their blogs, following weekly events in the Sentinel was hugely fascinating to me. I spent hours those first few days playing Catch-up, reading as much background as I could find, following the old trail to where events were at the time. I was astounded at the scale of it, and was totally hooked!

B. : What is it that takes a player from "hooked" like so many others, to being so dedicated to solving puzzles that you ended up with the title of "Queen of the Leaderboard" ?

Tally : Hmm. Mostly sheer dumb luck, a tolerant bank manager and the live events; coupled with the whole community aspect of the game. There are many cards I could not have solved without input from everyone else. While I consider myself to be pretty good with puzzles several of those silvers and blacks I could never have solved on my own. Plus, the teamwork involved in the two live events (the live London event and the Extreme Puzzling competition) - gaining points from both of those was really what secured the position. Everyone who completed a full set of solves is a winner, really !

B. : That goes without saying ! What was your entry for the Extreme Puzzling competition ?

Tally : Oh man; we did loads! Izzy and I started with blogs on LiveJournal about how bored we were with "regular" puzzles. It was meant to be the trailhead showing how we stumbled across the hidden world of extreme puzzling. Then mj, Guin, Izzy and I all met up at mine and we filmed and photographed mad escapades around Milton Keynes, like Guin doing Airkix (skydiving in a wind tunnel) which we videoed; Izzy and mj completing and hi rope obstacle course with Sudoku books (both of them overcoming a fear of heights in the process!) and other mad stuff. Then Guin created a website and we wrote tons of articles, posted loads of pics and edited some amazing video footage (well done to Izzy n mj for that). On reflection, it seems like a ridiculous way to spend one's time, but it was amazing fun at the time.

Tally : I even persuaded a windsurfer to be photographed playing with a Boggle set as he was out on the water. Such fun!

B. : Let's just say it's about as extreme as the theme of the competition ! You're not the first one to mention the importance of the community around this game. Why do you think this theme keeps coming up through these interviews ?

Tally : Because it's the most important part of the game! We all worked together on solves, collectively through the forums; we made teams with people we had never met before and bonded through mad challenge; the Mind Candy team were the very model of the community spirit that ran through the game.The game play was made for teamwork and co-operation. Even the characters themselves worked collectively, playing to their strengths and becoming greater than the sum of their parts. The saddest portions of the story were those towards the end as "Combed Thunderclap" revealed how alone she was as she struggled to fulfil her mission. Everything about the game embraced and encouraged community, friendship and co-operation. I loved it for that as much as any other aspect.

Tally : Can I add here that I have made some genuine and abiding friendships through the game, and I know I am not alone in that? I don't know if that's peculiar to PerplexCity, but it is special nonetheless.

B. : Since you mentioned earlier that you had been attending two live events, you had been able to meet fellow Cube Hunters before the EndGame party in London. Were you surprised by the number of people attending that evening, or did it seem only fair to you that this event would bring in so many people - from so many different countries ?

Tally : Well, to be fair, it seemed natural. I had been made aware from the London event that there were many, many players keen to take part and support the game. I clearly remember the team from Barcelona, and meeting people from all over the UK and one or two from the US. I think by the time it came to the End of the Season I was far more conscious of the global scale of the game than I had been when I started. It was great that the EndGame party was so reflective of that.

B. : Isn't it paradoxical that a game that apparently appeals to a very specific cultural audience - that of English-speaking, UK-based puzzles lovers - ends up bringing together people from such a variety areas ?

Tally : I don't think so, no. I certainly don't think it paradoxical. I think if people are curious about and interested in puzzles and stories, and there is a challenging and believable medium to engage them then people will get involved. I think it's a testament to the quality of the game that so many people from so many diverse linguistic and cultural backgrounds did become so involved in it; and that in turn further enriched the sense of community. It gave you endless hours of fun translating the whole thing into French, for example!

B. : Haha, touché ! Although in my case, it was not only a way to have fun translating it and sharing a passion with fellow countrymen - and women - who couldn't speak English, but also a way to hone my skills as a translator as I was, and still am, trying to develop skills in this professional field. In the same way, are there things Perplex City taught you that you ended up using in your carreer ?

Tally : Absolutely! As a teacher in a Secondary (High) school I have used lots of the puzzles in lessons as part of general problem-solving activities. The classes have loved them and there were many real surprises from some students deemed by the educational system to be "low ability" who were far more gifted at lateral thinking than one might expect, which has had some far-reaching benefits. I also devised a whole training session for 16+ students and for staff based on (Pawnbroking, a card based on ISBNs) and had them learning how to solve problems, research and make intellectual links. It was great! The game itself taught me so much about how much fun and versatile the internet is, about encryption and codebreaking, about language, history, art, mathematics and sock puppets. I am curious by nature and am a much-improved person as a result of having played PerplexCity. The one thing I never really developed was my morse-code interpretation. I sucked at that, and still do!

B. : As a fellow teacher, I can understand that. Education authorities in many countries are looking for ways to rejuvenate the way they teach, and initiatives such as the Ron Clark Academy in the USA, where riddles-solving and lateral thinking are emphasized, seem to meet quite a success so far. Do you think ARGs or Immersive Entertainment can give an interesting new angle to the teacher/pupil or the pupil/learning relationship ?

Tally : Absolutely! Without beginning a lengthy discussion about education systems, pedagogy and assessments I would certainly say that there is room, opportunity and a need for intellectually stimulating, creative and immersive experiences for young people. New technologies are the home of young people; I count myself a well-versed tourist, while they are natives. It becomes increasingly important that we find ways to engage these technologically-savvy youngsters through their own cultural media. I still want them to actually read stuff, though!

B. : Well, I think it's time once again to follow the tradition of worst question/best question ! What are the questions you hoped you would, and wouldn't be asked, and what are the answers to each ?

Tally : Oh. Ummm. What was/were my favourite moment/s of playing PerplexCity? Answer: The whole of the London event - from my first meeting with MacMonkey (my first friend through the game), to racing about counting Chinese lanterns ; the conga in Trafalgar Square (much to Duckie's horror, as I later discovered); the fruit eating race; the London Eye and totally failing to read the Morse Code notes I had made. Sock Puppets. Ringing a ficticious policewoman to report an abondoned child on a street in the path of an escaped bear. Discovering what a tretretretre is. The story.Making new and wonderful friends. Violet and Kurt. Standing in the woods, digging one desultory hole and giving up, only to discover we were a mere few feet away from the ultimate prize.

B. : That's quite a list of good memories

And what about your most dreaded question ?

Tally : Do you know, I didn't have one. But I am glad you didn't ask it, all the same

B. : Fair enough ! Anything else you'd like to add for our readers ?

Tally : It was a blast.

B. : Well thanks again for your time Tally, and here's to the good old days - and a shiny bright future !

Tally : Good old days make for shiny bright futures. It's been a pleasure ; and thank you. It's been nice to revisit those memories.

-Perplexe Cité - PXC French Translation Project
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-Find Satoshi

#9897

Re: Perplex City Endgame Anniversary	02/02/2008 16:15:53

Thomas Bookmore

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As we've seen earlier with Chris "Ixalon" Warren, some Perplex City puzzles have a particular, almost legendary status among the community of players. If "Billion to One" is the card that relies the most on the human element, "The 13th Labour" calls almost exclusively for the help of computers - lots and lots of them. Timothy "GuiN" Kerman, one of the leading projects for the attack on the 13th Labour, sits with Thomas Bookmore for a chat about cryptography, life, the universe and everything.

Bookmore : Good evening Guin, and thanks for taking the time to meet up for this interview ! Could you introduce yourself quickly for the fresh cart of players that joined us for Season 2 of Perplex City ?

Tim Kirman : Hi, well I am Guin or rather Tim. 36, and a little older but still not wiser. PXC really did change my life - I kid you not.

B. : We've had other enthusiastic people in this set of interviews, but you're the first one to take it to that level ! Would you like to elaborate ?

Tim : Well, essentially Perplex City made me realise a lot about myself - this is going to sound quite mad or possibly bizzare to some - but initially I was sceptical about PXC and the whole card thing but as is my nature and personality I got drawn in. I really fell into the Rabbit hole and found things out about myself I had forgotten. Such as my creative side, gaming, puzzling and the like. I travelled the world and rediscovered myself. I designed a lot of puzzles during and have continued to do so for example. It also made me realise my life was not as it should be or rather what i wanted, and that has led to me moving on and discovering a whole lot more about myself and what I really want. So, yeah PXC was a big hole for me.

B. : Fiction does have a way to make us discover a great deal about ourselves - whether that be in the form of a book or interactive, immersive entertainment ! How were you drawn into the rabbit hole - were you one of the 333, or did you join the adventure later ?

Tim : I joined a lot later. I got a card in November 2005 with a Firebox order and threw it in the bin ! I worked in marketing and advertising in a previous life and saw what I thought was simply a card for money game. One day I was bored I had several more Firebox orders arrived and I got the card back out of my little office bin (we dont empty them that often) after finishing the others I had received - mainly the Whipsmart card. It was awesome. SO much depth to a simple game. I didnt discover the forums, such as Unfiction intil about mid December, then the IRC room as I was intent on doing the Live event in London.

Tim : When i found this lot out i was in awe. I know when I met Mac he had no idea, but that was me a few weeks before. It was a lot bigger than I realised and it was easy for it to become quite an obsession. But i have been a gamer for many years, i had a Commodore 64 and have been into games a long time - this was a thousand times better, this led to me discovering ARGs - the rest is history !

B. : And once again, someone mentions Perplex City as becoming a matter for obsession ! How did this manifest itself for you ? If I remember correctly, you were part of the team behind one of the most ambitious projects for solving a Perplex City card...

Tim : Ah, 13th Labour. Well i have a natural obsession and addiction gene : I am like a dog with a bone, a kid with a scab ! But essentially I dont like to leave things they nag at me, so I hate not knowing the answer to somethings. PXC gave me some of the most amazing moments of discovery - in terms of solving something - but also some of my most dissapointing - again when solving something. But we are all human and have our own ideas of perfection so what might be a dissapointment to me is not to the next person. I would like to state for the record that yes I was obsessed with Shuffled, and it is the lamest solution of all the cards and the biggest dissapointment. But 13th labour was something we had to work on as a team. Sadly we never did it. Too much going on - but its still bugging me. I would love to be able to get it up again and have even tried to ask around but its not looking good at the moment (unless its been solved - I dont follow much anymore these days ! ). I still intend to put the site back online and will keep the prize live.

B. : As difficult as it has been to put together, the infrastructure behind the 13th Labour (a server to collate the decryption attemps from a client players would download) has surprised Perplex City's creators. Where did you and Chimera (the other half of the team, if I remember correctly) pick up the necessary skills to create such software ?

Tim : Erm - oh my god, that's just an odd event. If I recall correctly Chimera mentioned he was thinking of writing a client - I have been in marketing and the like and said I would try to get some stuff publicised. Mac was there too and a few others helped out. I bought a domain name had a host and got us a site. As far as it went I used my web skills, pumped out lots of info and Chimera did the coding. I didnt think about the size of it. I sourced prize materials from Mind Candy, payed for a lot myself and got donations from players. We used our skills as best we could. I have been involved in a variety of distributed projects. This just really appealed.

B. : For how long had the project been running until it would come to a halt ?

Tim : It was pretty much solid for 9 months, then on off for the last 3 but almost a year all told. We did a lot of keyspaces - I did over 2 million on my own networks - but we had hit a flaw : initially we made a bum choice. We assumed that no one would use punctuation and chose to limit the keyspace (so 1-0 a-z A-Z) : this limited us to over 14 million keys, each with a vast number of combinations. We then realised through a comment to Kurt this was not the case. Adding just 5 more, say [space] , . ? ! added something like 21 million keys...We started out down that path but Chimera had ISP issues and from there things took a downward turn. I really would like to crack it though !

B. : Well, here's hoping someone will hear your offer and take you up on it !

Tim : All said, all the work was from the community - I had never seen that in any gaming experience and I would like to thank all those that helped : I never have had the opportunity.

B. : Since Perplex City went to sleep after the start of its second season, did you keep in touch with the "Immersive Entertainment" scene, or did you just move on to other things entirely ?

Tim : I sort of tried but PXC had sort of been the be all and end all really - it was the most immersed I could have been so to speak. I made puzzles participated in things in London and San Francisco met untold numbers of amazing people and when it finished it was as if nothing else really compared. The other ARGs didnt or dont have that sort of money. I loved the idea and toyed with some of my own ideas, but I had moved on emotionally and personally. I think PXC was like learning to drive in an F1 car and then buying a Fiat Panda : it's not the same and never will be, so i don't have the enthusiasm. I have been sent links to other things, but its just totally not the same ; I have returned to my console gaming and am catching up on lost time there. I will say that the friends I made are some of the best i have ever had and I am very glad of the experience for that alone.

B. : You've made it a point, indeed, that the community is a big part of the Perplex City experience. What's the best "community moment" in your book ?

Tim : Oh my god...

B. : Hard to choose ?

Tim : Aside from the whole meeting the people on the other side of the pond, that was great. The online stuff was fun - if your browser didnt crash. Solving stuff as a group - amazing. But i think the actual weekend walking around a wood with some of the closest people I have ever met and even though we walked away empty handed I would never trade in the day I spent with them or the whole private partys we had and the fun. Meeting you at Izzy's. Just some of the moments...It was the social bit i loved. I had some great moments and some bad but all in all the whole community and the people were great. It was the people more than anything and that cant be made or created and it is possibly why i walked away when it all finished. I still chat to those i met, I have even met people I never met in game which has led to a totally new aspect to my life. But I think all said and done - the players made PXC - that's why it was what it was.

B. : Mind Candy made it a point that Perplex City might return at some point in the future. Would you consider walking back through the doors of the Earth-based CRT then ? What would give you a reason to ?

Tim : I would without a second thought even though it may not be the same but because I think it would have the potential - Its like when kids say "oh I hate that band now they have sold out" - I never did buy in to that because you only get to that stage when you make it through hard work. it might not be the same but I know that Mind Candy have high expectations and it would be well worth it. I think that they learnt a lot - not only during PXC but after the demise and with any luck they will rekindle the passion that was there before.

B. : Why do you think the passion is "gone" ?

Tim : It became very much about "use this site" "do the same puzzles everyday for ever" and the cards where really dumbed down - it became a commodity, which in honesty it always was. But once they had us they pretty much turned it on its head, and thats why it fell at the first hurdle : card sales fell, interest wained, the ideas were great but the delivery was lacking - a little like the English football and Rugby team (good luck, by the way !).

B. : Heh, merci !

Thomas Bookmore : Since you mention your experience in marketing, the WeLovePuzzles forums have been abuzz with educated guesses regarding the eventual continuation of Season 2 cards these last two weeks - guesses that aren't very optimistic. What would be your take on that ?

Tim : If we are to take it from a financial point of view, I always beleived PXC would return or will return. There was a lot of money invested in the cards and they were ready, so i can only guess that this would eventually happen and hope that it does.

B. : Tradition time - what's the question you hoped you wouldn't been ask during this interview, and what's the answer to it ?

Tim : Oh i don't know...Would i have dug up 2 feet from where I stood if I knew what I know now? Or walked to where Andy was at 1 pm when I was standing 50 meters away ? In all honesty, and I do mean this, I would not change those things. I know how close I came and was ; however, I knew if I found it I was going to go away travelling, possibly borneo or somewhere equally remote. And i know that I wouldnt be with the person I am now had that happened, and I wouldn't change that for 100k, 50k, or a small share. My life didn't need to find the Cube it needed me to find me. That might sound trite, or sad, but in all honesty I found what I really wanted.

B. : You should have followed a certain person's advice

Tim : Yes, my son was there and he did say "dig dig dig" !

B. : And now, to balance things out : what's the question you wish you had been asked, and what's the answer that goes with it ?

Tim : Oh well, I suppose it would have been "Would you like to design many many more puzzles for us ?" and I would have said "Yes if I can work from home" - but then I would have been unemployed now ! Hind sight - it's a great thing.

B. : One last for the road ! One of our interviewees awarded you the "sexiest player" trophy, due to your pure animal magnetism. Any comment ?

Tim : Really ? Erm - flattered, very flattered ! I think I will leave it there and laugh when I speak to my significant other half - unless she said it !

B. : I'll let you figure that out with her ! Well GuiN, thanks for your time - is there maybe one last thing you'd like to add for our readers ?

Tim : Well I would love to see PXC in some form again and hope to meet you all if it happens. See you in the rabbit hole !