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#048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris)

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#12221
#048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 16/11/2008 13:25:17

arkasha
Lover of Puzzles

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#048 Wheels in Motion

Front
(two cogs, touching each other)

Two cogs of the same size are connected as shown
above. Cog 1 is free to rotate around pivot A and is
attached to an arm that rotates clockwise around
pivot B. Cog 2 is fixed in place and can only turn
anticlockwise around pivot B. Cog 2 turns at half
the speed of Cog 1. Through what angle will Cog 1
have spun about pivot A when it reaches the other
side of Cog 2?

GUEST PUZZLE ARCHITECT
{ Tim Judkins }
Back (part of the Horoscopes series)
The Spider (April 11 - May 10)

Spiders are very selective, especially in regard to other people.
You often come across as a bit of a homebody, but this is largely
missing the point; in fact, it's just that Spiders find most other
people try their patience and temper too mcuh, so staying in and
baking a nice pie is easier on your blood pressure.

Like your namesake, you always have a plan to follow. You also
suffer a need to make things far more elaborate than they really
have to be, often introdcing problems into otherwise simple
situations. You are self-aware enough to recognise the problem,
but will never be able to overcome it.

Spiders get along particularly poorly with the careless attitude
of Dice and would do well to avoud romantic or business
entanglements with them. Although Spiders are very happy
together in marriage, the resultant over-thinking of everything
from family vacations to math homework will make everyone
around you want to tear their hair out in frustration.

Because Spiders are excellant at keeping secrets, they do well
in careers requiring great discretion. For example, they make
top-shelf security agents and hairstylists.

www.pxcsentinel.com/futures


Please use this thread for discussion about this card.

My S2W2 solves: 49/86
#12317
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 09:49:36

Ravenstorm
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Is it me? Surely two cogs of equal size must rotate at the same speed?

Gravity is a myth. The Earth sucks.
#12318
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 09:57:17

martynpie
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That's what I thought too: especially as it says they're the same size.

Spoiler: (highlight to read)


Perhaps they mean the speed at which 1 rotates about 2 is twice the speed at which the free spinning cog 1 rotates?



But for an organge, maybe that's too complexicated, and we're missing something.


Woowoo!
#12319
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 10:09:27

Ravenstorm
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That's where I'm stuck.

Spoiler: (highlight to read)

Shouldn't they both rotate about at the same speed if they are connected gears. Unless, as you say Cog 1 is free spinning but then that would mean it could stay perfectly still as well.



Confused. Yes I am.

Gravity is a myth. The Earth sucks.
#12320
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 10:55:41

trk
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Ravenstorm wrote:

That's where I'm stuck.

Spoiler: (highlight to read)

Shouldn't they both rotate about at the same speed if they are connected gears. Unless, as you say Cog 1 is free spinning but then that would mean it could stay perfectly still as well.



Confused. Yes I am.

I figured that:

Spoiler: (highlight to read)

It depends what you are measuring the rotation relative to. Relative to each other, they will be the same angular velocity but in opposite directions. Relative to the viewer, as A moves over B it must rotate more than B as it travels. Consider the situation where B stays fixed and A moves over B. B doesn't rotate, but A certainly will.


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#12321
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 11:05:14

martynpie
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When I get on my lunch break proper I'll have a crack based on:

Spoiler: (highlight to read)


Cog 2 driving at v
Cog 1 rotating about B at 2v but "free-wheeling"


Woowoo!
#12324
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 11:38:37

martynpie
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Cracked it

(My method above is too complex)

Woowoo!
#12326
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 14:47:45

gregorS
Lover of Puzzles

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Argh, this card is driving me crazy.

Spoiler: (highlight to read)

I've tried cog 1 rotating about A at twice the speed of cog 2 rotating about B and cog 1 rotating about B at twice the speed of cog 2 rotating about B.
I've also tried to get cog 1 to the opposite side of where it is touching cog 2 at the start (cog 1 ends up somewhere between the indicated start and end points on the card). But nothing seems to produce a correct answer.


#12327
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 15:37:00

martynpie
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MAJOR SPOILER

Spoiler: (highlight to read)


The trick is, that for every turn the fixed cog makes, the other one rotates about it 180 degrees. THAT's what it means by the speed of one is half that of the other. Terribly worded card...


Woowoo!
#12395
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 17:26:41

Ravenstorm
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Still don't follow it. Would it not be the other way around?

Gravity is a myth. The Earth sucks.
#12400
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 20/11/2008 20:39:10

volvox
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The gear going around the other gear always got me. Here's how I think of the solution:

Spoiler: (highlight to read)

You need to look at how much Gear A rotates not from the reference frame of the gear itself, but you looking at the whole contraption. If you look at one spot on Gear A as it moves around, you will see it rotate 360 degrees by the time it reaches the other side of Gear B. However, if you were just looking at it from Gear A's perspective, it would have only gone 180 degrees.

Since Gear B moves half as fast as Gear A in the opposite direction, it will have added another 90 degrees to the total travel distance. This would be have the rotation amount, of 180 degrees.

So the total will then be 360 + 180 = 540 degrees.


Abzot, my MoshiMonster
#12407
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 21/11/2008 10:35:27

martynpie
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The way I thought of it:

Spoiler: (highlight to read)


Fixed cog rotates through 180, which moves the other cog through 90 degrees to the 12 o'clock position. Fixed position cog rotates through another 180 degrees, the other one moves through the final 90 degrees to the 3 o'clock position.

The fixed cog has spun 360, the other one has been 'forced' via the teeth of the fixed cog through 180.

360 + 180 = 540


Woowoo!
#12408
Re: #048 - Wheels in Motion (orange Tetris) 21/11/2008 10:55:48

trk
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Here's the way I thought about it and my solution:

Spoiler: (highlight to read)

First just consider B doesn't rotate and A just moves over to the other side of B. This means that A does a 360 degree cw rotation.

Now we are told that B rotates at half the speed of A, so by the end B will have rotated ccw (rB) half the degrees of A's total rotation cw (rA). Because they are the same size B's ccw rotation will be added cw to A's rotation caused by the arm moving.

rA = 360+rB (A's total = arm rotation + same as B)
rB = rA/2 (B's total rotation = half A's total)

So solve the simultaneous equations:
rA = 360+rA/2 --> 2rA - rA = 720 --> rA = 720 ==> rB = 360

But the question asks for A's rotation around axis 1, which has also rotated 180 cw, so we need to subtract that 180 degrees off the final answer for rA.

Answer = rA - 180 = 720 - 180 = 540.



S2W2 Solves
My Moshi Monsters:
Bena
BenaKat

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